Mary Ellen Carter Taster

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MEC taster & Unconditional

Post by Chris Dangerfield on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:49 pm

"Unconditional" is such a very very hard thing to achieve. For those giving and for those in hopes of receiving. We all have so many obstructions (baggage) in our lives, that it's hard work to keep "unconditional" at the top of our minds, even with those we love most... and what it really means to say that.

I love my dude, unconditionally.

However, he's changing jobs just now, which has turned him into a very lovable aggressive stinky cranky control freak. LOL. He does NOT like to be left with an undefined day. Actually, that's funny, because Dale likes structure... and so does my man, but two more different human beings you'll never meet.

I was rather wroth with him two days ago, until I realized what was causing this mood. Suddenly, everything for me shifted. I told him he was being stinky because he was stressed about the work issue. He immediately calmed down and actually agreed and said (upon reflection) that 'yes' that was completely true.

So, 'unconditional love' is a hard and complicated, but worth every moment of conscious effort we put into it. What we're hearing and what is happening isn't important (as Philip says), but that our loved ones are feeling loved, cherished and safe, IS!

I think Philip learned a lot from some pretty tough suffering with his ankle surgeries... Thus, when our loved ones are struggling/suffering, we take lots of small steps and remember that pain and anger aren't always what they look like.

FCR reminds me of a lot of things I value. It may take me some time to put the pieces together, but it really does. WWPD (what would Philip do) is always some of the best life advice I can ever come back to.

x, Chris

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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Danny on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:57 pm

I've always thought Tom's parents just didn't know what to do with him. There's always this belief that if you raise a child with your "values" they'll inherit them - and if their values were being quiet, contemplative, peaceful, and heterosexual - and Tom is none of those - they'd be questioning their parenting and their faith before they got to the recognition that their child is not an extension of themselves (some parents never get that far...)

I think if they did meet again, Tom would be heavily on the defensive - Jake would need to be there calming him down - but his parents would be trying quite hard to reconcile their view of their naughty / unmanageable child versus the man he has grown into who has conquered Everest, while trying not to mention the enormous rainbow coloured elephant dancing the cancan in the corner of the room.

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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Chris Dangerfield on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:08 pm

I do understand some of what you're saying. However, "Gay / gender preference, ADD or ? whatever Tom's diagnosis, temperament is, etc... are not "VALUES." They are not understandably inheritable (except in an unknown genetic code type of way). We get the children we get and then it's up to parents to model their best behaviors as well as they can.

As parents it's important to teach what you CAN. Those are values. Things such as the 'treatment of others', 'care', 'respect', 'patience', 'generosity', etc...

I agree that parents are often thrown when they breed children who don't behave the way they imagine they did and those children seem to defy their expectations. 

Tom's parents needed children from "central casting" that they could take to the royal wedding and have them behave as mini-bishops. When they didn't get that in Tom, all their plans were thrown for a loop and they melted down and -- they changed -- and became the worst type of parents. 

Tom did not change, not at all. There was NEVER anything wrong with him.

This is a very typical scenario for all types of people, particularly of gay men and women. We focus on men, but I have lesbian friends who talk viciously about not being the dainty little lady their mothers always longed for... It's sad and hard. Children are not dolls made to order.

One needs a license to drive a car... and, yet, nothing at all to have a child.

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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Houndnhorse1 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:31 pm

"Heterosexuality" is never a value, it can not be. However, way too many people think that it is. Also true of "choosing" your gender, too many people vocal in the current US nonsense of mandating "sex at birth" as the determiner of bathroom choice miss that completely, well, they don't believe it's true. Sadly.
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Ranger52899 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:11 pm

their child is not an extension of themselves


Oh Bingo. Exactly this. ^^
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Mackenzietwin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:52 pm

There is a reason I never went into family or juvenile related work.  I already see too many people who are too concerned with the child being either a method of money/extortion of a spouse or unworthy because the child did not live up to being an extension of themselves.  I swear I'd end up with a house full of children if that was my job. 

"No, you are unworthy of having a child, this one is coming home with me!"

I wonder, in this new age of the ME ME ME Generation, if it will be even more common to have parents believing that their child should just be an extension of themselves.

By the way, Danny, I LOVED your description of the "enormous rainbow coloured elephant dancing the cancan in the corner of the room".  That just made me smile!
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Blue Stocking on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:11 pm

ChrisD wrote:Children are not dolls made to order.

 This is so true and this makes me so sad!  Part of the joy of children is to see them become unique and special individuals--not copies of their parents.  You work to share and hope they absorb your values but in the end they need to be who they are and you need to love and support them.

In my mind Tom's parents (and Dale's mother)  failed spectacularly at this!  You do  not to get to walk away from your kids!
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Dizzy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:29 pm

Blue wrote: they need to be who they are and you need to love and support them.

I very much agree. I think that there's a point where a parent has to make the conscious choice to learn who their children are.  Then to accept and find the joy of that person.  It's the most fascinating part of being a parent, in my opinion.

If Tom's parents, Dale's mother, even Flynn's parent, could ever get to that point then a relationship could be made.  It would never make up for the lack that was shown in the past, but it would make for a healthier relationship moving forward.

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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Chris Dangerfield on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:52 pm

@Danny wrote:...before they got to the recognition that their child is not an extension of themselves (some parents never get that far...)

@Ranger52899 wrote:their child is not an extension of themselves
Oh Bingo. Exactly this. ^^
This thought NEEDED to be bolded. Danny (and Ranger) are just so right. 

Not only do so few parents take the time to imagine what "may" evolve with their future child, but when people spend most of their lives looking only through their own eyes and only considering their OWN world-view. Then it's logical to them that their children will view the world as they do. I mean, doesn't everyone??? It's ludicrus, but we see people do it everywhere. Further, the world their children will inhabit will be entirely different to their own.

It makes me crazy -- the because I believe the world is "thus and so" it must be... all evidence to the contrary.

So how reasonable is it to imagine that OUR (such ownership) child will be a neat tidy little copy of our world-view and behaviors. What I personally find hard to comprehend is that some of my worst behaviors I did indeed pick up off my parents (and these were things they often fought against in themselves) and it pained them to no end to see me make the same mistakes they did.

I said this before in some post, but I worry about money. My Dude calls me a worry wort (although he's glad when my economical ways serve him, the stinker). Well that fear of being a guy living out of a shopping cart is something I got straight from my mother (modeling?). It pains her to no end, but we both admit it to each other and try our best to laugh about it. "YEP, we are related and both over cautious!" She's a good one, so there's a lot worse I could be modeling.

Okay, I'm dithering now, but I just had to add my own support to this whole topic. Each of us is unique. Precious. And has things to offer our world that no other human does. I assure you that my Dude of many years is very very very glad I'm a cranky, disagreeable, worry-wort of a gay man who loves him madly and is very happy to have lots of sex with that particular man. HA! See, he's quite glad I'm not 'just' an extension of my parents. I'm no good to him as a heterosexual at all.

TL:DR - Chris (out) Very Happy
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Chris Dangerfield on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:11 pm

@Houndnhorse1 wrote:"Heterosexuality" is never a value, it can not be. However, way too many people think that it is. Also true of "choosing" your gender, too many people vocal in the current US nonsense of mandating "sex at birth" as the determiner of bathroom choice miss that completely, well, they don't believe it's true. Sadly.
Well said. Heterosexuality, like an infinite number of things in our world, is a majority "norm." It's so worthwhile to examine life carefully and try to discover all the things we accept as "normal" that are actually NOT. The world is so much wider than most of us habitually imagine.
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by jkfan on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:52 pm

@Chris Dangerfield wrote:
@Danny wrote:...before they got to the recognition that their child is not an extension of themselves (some parents never get that far...)

@Ranger52899 wrote:their child is not an extension of themselves
Oh Bingo. Exactly this. ^^
This thought NEEDED to be bolded. Danny (and Ranger) are just so right. 

Not only do so few parents take the time to imagine what "may" evolve with their future child, but when people spend most of their lives looking only through their own eyes and only considering their OWN world-view. Then it's logical to them that their children will view the world as they do. I mean, doesn't everyone??? It's ludicrus, but we see people do it everywhere. Further, the world their children will inhabit will be entirely different to their own.
  
Adding to this - and maybe I'm on the wrong track - but in my case, I was a TOTAL failure in my mother's eyes because she wanted to vicariously live through me, and I just couldn't (she still maintains WOULDN'T not COULDN'T) deliver.  She wanted me to go to college, but I wasn't interested (although, I went for two years, then gave up).  If I knew then what I know now, I would have seen that the problem was I didn't see any college majors that interested me (computer science not being an option at the time).  I should have given mechanical engineering a try - but that wasn't a 'girl' type major.  

As the country song goes, "my favorite dress is my favorite blue jeans" - so no to dressing up, make up, partying (never developed a taste for alcohol) - so all the things she wanted me to be, I wasn't.  

If 'being an extension of themselves' is the same thing as 'living vicariously through your children', then I definitely fall in to that category.

Happiest day of my life was when my company abandoned a dress code for employees who didn't meet with clients.  That was the last day a dress showed up in my closet  Laughing.  We 'techies' were relegated to the basement well out of sight of any business clients.  Worked for me.
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

Post by Chris Dangerfield on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:30 pm

Well said. Learning and discovering all the BIG and small things that make us who we are is essential. The expectation of others (parents included) can be helpful or can be a prison.

It sounds like you have a good grasp of WHAT YOU need today. Good for you.
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Re: Mary Ellen Carter Taster

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